Call this what it is. It’s a police riot.

I was at one of the protests in downtown Seattle yesterday. I got there at 3pm. I saw nothing but people standing in the street with signs and chanting. Not a shred of aggression from the crowd.

By 3:45 there were people coming back through the crowd with pepper spray in their eyes. The flashbangs followed.

I’m not a skilled or experienced activist. I was out of shape even before spending months in quarantine, and I knew it was time for me to pull back. Not proud of that. I walked with a white woman who had spray in her eyes, helped her with what I could, and was glad that several more experienced young women showed up with water and milk and towels.

The woman who’d been sprayed was just stunned. No aggression. She had no idea why the cops started spraying.

I wish I could show you the next pair I met. I don’t take pictures without permission and I wasn’t about to ask at a time like this. The older Black gentleman I met and the young Black woman with him–a daughter, grandaughter, I don’t know–both had bloodshot eyes and faces covered with milk and water to counteract the chemicals. They, too, were a little shaken but otherwise chill, and had no idea why the police started spraying. He had a USMC ball cap.

The guy served his country, peacefully asked for an end to the abuse people like him keep suffering, and he got a face full of chemical agents for it.

You can see the videos all over the internet. Police attacking reporters, police running down civilians with vehicles and in even one case I saw, a horse. People who aren’t any kind of threat at all.

This is a riot, yeah. It’s a police riot.

New book out this week. Should be focused on that. Maybe I shouldn’t be mixing this in when I already don’t post that frequently on my blog–sorry about that. But this is too important not to say anything. If you have a platform, it’s time to use it.

Inevitably, someone will try to tell me this is all because of antifa–and anyone who believes that can get bent. That’s not what antifa is or what it means. Antifa means “anti-fascist,” and that’s not an organization or a group or a terrorist cell, despite anything our clearly-loves-him-some-fascism president claims. Yes, there are white people among these protests getting destructive and out of hand for all their own reasons, none of which help Black Americans. They need to settle the hell down. The far greater share of violence is coming from white supremacists and police.

Also, someone will inevitably say I shouldn’t get political, or that I will alienate half my audience, as if I’m new to all this. I’ve always been political. This is who I have always been. I’m fine with losing any part of my audience who has a problem with what I’m saying. And by the way, if you ever see this said to any other creator: it’s never half. It’s never even close to half.

This is a police riot. We need to call it what it is.

27 thoughts on “Call this what it is. It’s a police riot.

  1. Stephen

    Thanks for showing your support. We had a protest here as well in a fairly conservative part of the country, and a driver went out of the way to drive into my friend and drive away. It was relatively slow and not enough to injure him, but it knocked him onto the car’s hood. It blows my mind that people can be so angered by these protests that they are willing to risk seriously injuring people that aren’t harming anyone. Fortunately we didn’t see any police violence, and I think they actually did their job well, monitoring from a distance without responding with anger or showing up grouped in numbers to intimidate the protest (I’m sure there were much more officers than normal nearby, but they didn’t goad protester by making a visible show of force). And, what do you know, none of the protesters were violent, none of them damaged property, and none of them turned into a looting mob. The only violence I saw was the jackass that wanted to make a point with his car.

    I generally try to recognize the best in all sides of an argument. I also don’t believe in rushing to judgement. In any individual case, I think it is important to withhold a final judgment in the absence of all the facts. Sometimes there are cases where an incident of seeming police brutality turns out to have been justified, and having family that have served as police, I feel like I’m just about as inclined as anyone to give as much benefit of doubt as I can.

    But case after case of video evidence, where police have abused authority with deadly consequences, demands change. It also pretty much guarantees that so much more is happening when people aren’t there to record what is happening. And nearly all statistics I find from reputable sources that aren’t overtly partisan conclude that nonwhite citizens are far more likely to lose their lives in police encounters than white citizens.

    What bothers me are people that refuse to even question whether there is a problem. That we have gotten so tribal in our politics that we look for any excuse to justify or handwave issues that concern people from the “other” political tribe. My aunt, as good a person as she otherwise is, thinks without checking any independent sources that every environmental problem is exaggerated or made up by the liberal media. That COVID-19 is a plot to dethrone our god-given president. That not just any gun regulation, but any gun violence study is a move by the government to take away our liberty (even though the studies are generally done by private entities, since the NRA has effectively blocked the government from sponsoring such studies). And that these protests are riots by angry people that are just looking for an excuse to behave poorly. She doesn’t recognize her politics as racist just because she personally wouldn’t think twice about sharing a table with a black person, or because she goes to church with someone who is black (I find people use the ‘black friend’ excuse without usually realizing it). Then FOX will show a video of looters in Minneapolis, then suddenly that is “all” these protests are.

    Anyway, I’m glad you are open about your views. I don’t feel you are disrespectful at all, and this issue is particularly important to raise our social consciousness for.

    Reply
  2. Brian

    This is something that I’ve personally more and more over the age of Trump. I’ve realized that I live in a bubble. There are whole groups of people whose experience I cannot begin to fathom. Be it the “angry white folk” that elected the current occupant of the White House or whole populations feel fear or anger when having an interaction with a cop.

    I‘d assumed because I live in relative opulence and that It was economic uncertainty motivating voters and that it wasn’t just racism. That because any interaction I’ve had with an officer was professional and business like that it was “few bad apples” and not institutionalized racism.

    The events of the past week have shown me that it’s not that the system is broken it’s that it’s working as designed. I just get to be the person that it’s working for. The question is what do I do now. I don’t know yet but I do know that everyone should have the opportunities I do.

    Reply
    1. Elliott Kay Post author

      Acknowledging privilege and that effect on you is an important first step. Nobody’s saying you’re a bad person for it; as you say, others should have that privilege, too.

      As for what now, off the top of my head:
      Donate to bail funds in cities where these protests are happening. Here’s Las Vegas, where the need is apparently great right now: https://secure.actblue.com/donate/vegasfreedomfund but you can Google others.

      Look up some stuff about how to be a good ally. Understand there’s a lot of frustration and anger to hear in all of that. It might feel personal. It’s on us to suck that up, because us taking some hits for understanding and being better is still a whole lot easier than what Black and POC folks have had to deal with. If you go to a protest, please please please follow the lead of Black organizers. Look up some stuff on how to prepare for a protest, too, because you need to look out for yourself.

      These protests are immediate, but grappling with this goes beyond the immediate. So You Want to Talk About Race by Ijeoma Oluo is a good place to start: https://www.amazon.com/You-Want-Talk-About-Race-ebook/dp/B07QBNKJTZ
      Or basically anything by Ta-Nehisi Coates is worth reading right now, too. Between the World and Me is one of the best things I’ve ever read: https://www.amazon.com/Between-World-Me-Ta-Nehisi-Coates-ebook/dp/B00SEFAIRI

      Reply
  3. Robert Freeman

    Lol.

    Now I understand why GI IV was nowhere near as good as 1-3. When an artist cares more about getting their message out than making a quality product their artwork inevitably suffers. I hope the trend doesn’t continue.

    P.S. None of that stuff actually helps black people. Maybe I’ll see you at the youth center this week and together we can try and break a black youth out of the perpetual cycle of black on black violence through knowledge and compassion. But I doubt it. You don’t get any internet good boy feels for doing something like that.

    Reply
    1. Dave Black

      Why am I not surprised that people who claim to dislike “Past Due” are also those who appear to dislike Mr. Kay’s political views. In terms of “None of that stuff actually helps black people,” to what “stuff” are you referring? The large-scale protests (with not enough people wearing masks) showing that many people can no longer look the other way at unnecessary police brutality? The author reaching out to an audience with a message doesn’t make a difference? You can’t say that maybe he won’t change even one person’s mind. Even if it’s one person, that’s an improvement.

      Reply
      1. Robert Freeman

        Well actually I was referring to the donation sites he posted and the “books” he referred the first poster to but you could also say the protests don’t help either. Because they don’t. Anyway, charities only have to legally donate 0.97% of their income (the money that gets donated to them) and the bail sites have spent between 200-300k–of the 23 million donated–on bailing out protesters. The rest goes to ceo’s, campaign donations, employees, etcetera. So, if you don’t want to waste your money making some a-hole richer or contributing to a politicians campaign without your knowledge you’re better off going down and bailing out protesters yourself. In regards to the books linked; one is about classism not racism and the other is blind hatred. If you want to make things worse you’d read those.

        The protests don’t help either. Even the ones that are actually peaceful. All those people are protesting a symptom of a problem for some internet pats on the back. As I said I never see any of them down at the youth center trying to actually help (although them going there might be just as bad seeing as how blatantly ignorant they all seem to be) because that isn’t “trendy”. Breaking the cycle of black on black violence starts with educating the youth.

        Mr. Kay is a science fiction fantasy writer. His most recent book suffered because he decided to spend more effort putting his political views in than writing a good story. This would be (and all to frequently is) the case for any artist with any viewpoint. They’re his books and he can write them however he wants but it’s very dishonest to the fans to take an established series and make it a soapbox. As for changing peoples minds? I can’t say if it would be an improvement or not seeing as how staggeringly misinformed he seems to be.

        Reply
        1. Keith Huntington

          You used the term “cycle of black on black violence” in two separate posts, which makes me think you’re being very intentional about trying to create that strawman. These current protects aren’t about black-on-black violence, so they aren’t trying to address or solve THAT issue. The recent protests are more about “cop-on-black violence” and “society-on-black violence”, which does need to be addressed.

          FWIW, I loved his fourth entry in the series. I agree that the world needs more nazi-punching. Punching nazi’s should be a national sport! “Always punch the nazis” is a great credo.

          Reply
          1. Robert Freeman

            Lol. Am I being trolled right now? Calling something that’s supported by mountains a data a strawman then listing obvious strawmen as the real issues to be addressed with a straight face? I guess I won’t see you down at the youth center either.

            I know what the protests are about. Anyone with half an eye, a quarter of an ear, and living on the moon knows what the protests are about. Thanks for either not reading or not comprehending apparently anything I said. They are protesting a symptom of the problem. Symptom. A physical or mental feature which is regarded as indicating a condition of disease. Not the actual problem.

            Sure. If you find an actual nazi punch away. Although, I suspect you follow the redefined definition of nazi: “anyone I disagree with”.

  4. Vtech

    @Robert Freeman

    How is police violence against African Americans a “symptom” that shouldn’t be protested?
    You could argue it’s a symptom of institutionalized racism but I get the feeling that’s not your point.

    Reply
    1. Robert Freeman

      It is painfully, embarrassingly, obvious why that’s a symptom and not the problem. I didn’t say they shouldn’t protest. That is their right to do so. I said it doesn’t help black people. Which it doesn’t.

      If you want to discuss this like grown ups actually read what I wrote instead of picking out one word you didn’t like and assuming my thought process based on that.

      Reply
      1. Vtech

        Gonna have to disagree on the “it doesn’t help” part. Multiple steps were taken to curb police abuse due to the sheer scope of the protests.

        Also: You have yet to actually list what it’s a symptom of.(Not mention the fact that you saying that protesting doesn’t help implies you think people shouldn’t be doing it.)

        Reply
        1. Robert Freeman

          You’re right. I didn’t say what it was a symptom of. Twice. How silly of me.

          I don’t think they should be doing it. But. That’s. Not. What. What. I. Wrote. Means. It’s like I’m not talking to a human being. Vtech? Is that some computer program designed to impersonate people in online interactions? That or you’re trolling me. I support their right to protest whatever they want, regardless of how misinformed it is and how little it helps.

          Lets do a little thought exercise. There are between 600,000 and 800,000 cops in the united states (depending on what site you look at). Now, lets take out 300,000 under the assumption that they have no direct human interaction on any given day. That leaves 300,000 to 500,000 thousand. Now, lets say those 300,000 to 500,000 have 5 face to face interactions with civilians a day. That’s 1,500,000 to 2,500,000 interactions a day.
          547,500,000 to 912,500,000 interactions a year. Now. Tell me, off the top of your head (without looking it up) how many instances of police brutality can you recall?
          Now look it up.
          I believe the correct number is: The protests don’t help and the majority of people are supporting them for internet feel goods and trendy, self congratulatory, pats on the back.

          Reply
          1. rick

            Hey, it’s been fun to follow your uh fans? and the discussion. NO one has been attacked and it’s been civil; ignorant, but civil. These aren’t protests they are attacks on fundamental institutions; law enforcement. I think there is some discussion of alternatives to simply sending out armed men/women for EVERY 911 call but simply defunding those same efforts is silly and dangerous. I feel for Kay’s first association with protests but those people were told to disperse and they knew the consequences of not doing so. It seems to me, if one follows the orders of the police, one is LESS likely to be shot; NOT ALWAYS!! but for the vast majority of interactions. The protests might have started as true protests but systemic racism is a non-sequitur and said “protests” have simply become roving gangs of violent criminals. I’d think simply looking at 6 murders at the “peaceful” CHAZ would be enough to wake up ANTIFA supporters but I live in reality and ANTIFA supporters are criminal in their support. If one knows that an entire group is violently attacking others then you are part of the problem and equally guilty for the continuing violence across this country and for the innocent people being attacked.
            Well, thank you Robert, this was a refreshing discussion to come across. However, I’m very, very sad that I doubt i can read mr. Kay’s art anymore. I think, since he’s never said anything about the violence that he supports it and his further art will simply be political rhetoric in that vein. One cannot live in a bubble. One SHOULD take advantage of a platform if you wish but that platform shouldn’t be used to lie nor to reject reality.
            Reality: ANTIFA is a violent organization that inflicts harm on innocent people.
            Reality: BLM is run not for people of color but, acknowledge in video by the organizations leaders, is run for communists ideals.
            Don’t take my word for it; simply do actual research on your own.
            Anyway, to those that engage in civil discourse I thank all of you. Robert I thank you mostly for speaking to another side of the argument and acknowledging symptom vs. disease.
            Mr. Kay, I love Poor Mans Fight all of them. You have the right, and from your perspective, a responsibility to speak to what you saw but you can’t have the same stance at this point; can you?

          2. Elliott Kay Post author

            Rick,
            Your understanding of Black Lives Matter is deeply flawed. Your understanding of antifa is deeply flawed. Your understanding of these protests and how police operate are also deeply flawed. You can take the time to educate yourself if you really want to understand these things. Google is free.
            I take back nothing I have said. What we have seen is a nationwide police riot, all because people dared to speak up and say they want the police to stop beating and killing Black people and they want real accountability for the “bad apples.”
            If you feel like you can’t read my work anymore because of all this, I’m fine with that.

          3. Vtech

            “I don’t think they should be doing it.”
            See, that wasn’t so hard.

            “how many instances of police brutality can you recall?”
            Enough for their to be a problem and enough officers and police unions effectively get away with brutality and corruption for it to be a *very* serious problem.

            “The protests don’t help and the majority of people are supporting them for internet feel goods and trendy, self congratulatory, pats on the back.”
            Then you are seriously close minded and cynical.

          4. Robert Freeman

            Wow. A semi-direct reply from Mr. K himself.

            Mr. K. Do you even know who runs blm and funds antifa? I say “funds” because according to some media it doesn’t exist and therefore can’t be “run”. The video I assume rick is alluding to where the blm leadership states flat out they are trained marxists is widely circulated but I’m not referring to that (even though a reasonable person would agree that they are forwarding communist ideals). The original founders, current leadership, main funding, stated organization goals etc. Do you know where THEIR funding is going? They’ve gotten a lot of it over the past months. There’s a reason companies are pulling their backing. Wonder why?

            Additionally; every video I’ve seen of the frontline protesters and police has the protesters violently engaging police, and then crowd dispersal has been implemented. There were dozens (maybe hundreds) of livestreams and clips (now removed from twitter and youtube (hmmmm)) but many are still available at places like bitchute. It may seem, from your stated position in the protest, that police were “rioting” (lawl (sorry, couldn’t help myself)) but that is assuredly not the case. The cases where they were actually protesting (55 million dollars of damage and 220 buildings burned in minneapolis does not a peaceful protest make (taken from the very first result on google btw)) they protested unmolested and in some places continue to do so. Crime in the chaz went up over 500% with many videos of the chaz ‘police’ beating and extorting people in a clear cut case of irony made flesh, portland murders quadrupled–I think–in the last month compared to the same time last year, chicago is doing 50 murders a week and in 6 months has almost 100 more killings than the entirety of last year and so on and so on. The protests, when they are protests, aren’t helping anyone. The riots are destroying cities. blm doesn’t care about black lives. antifa is not anti anything. Their methods are incredibly fascist. I haven’t read your bio but I’m going to assume you aren’t 12 years old. Please judge by actions and not titles. Names don’t always represent what they are named for. Democratic peoples republic of north korea comes to mind. Perhaps you should stop using google and try a site with a little less directed search algorithms.

            I was a fan of your books up until GI IV. As you may or may not have read, I thought you put too much effort into inserting your ideals and not enough into crafting a story. I can only hope the trend does not continue but at the end of the day they are your books and you will write them how you see fit.

            Cheers rick

          5. Vtech

            @Robert Freeman

            >Mr. K. Do you even know who runs blm and funds antifa? I say “funds” because according to some media it doesn’t exist and therefore can’t be “run”.

            I’d say most of them don’t get funds at all.
            The vast majority of BLM and antifa are disparate groups of people only connected by a political movement they associate with/protest under the banner of.

            Trust; joining a BLM or antifa protest doesn’t net you a paycheck or special training/equipment.

            >Additionally; every video I’ve seen of the frontline protesters and police has the protesters violently engaging police, and then crowd dispersal has been implemented.

            And I’ve seen several videos of police engaging in needlessly antagonistic and violent behavior with peaceful protesters.

            >The cases where they were actually protesting they protested unmolested
            And wrong:
            https://www.orlandoweekly.com/Blogs/archives/2020/07/20/new-video-shows-tampa-police-attacking-peaceful-protesters-on-july-4

            Congratulations on only using Google once to support your view and nothing else.

          6. Robert Freeman

            Mr. Tech. I see you’re still ignoring most of what I say. Not surprised.

            Anyway; blm is an organization. Supporting it does not make you part of it. Much like the bail out protester sites received millions, blm has also received millions in the past few months. That’s just in online donations. Do you know where it goes? Because, like you said, they aren’t paying random people on the streets. Nice research though. I don’t think “I don’t think they get paid” would stand up to an audit.

            I said nothing about their protesters getting paid or trained. I asked what was known about the leadership, origin, and funding.

            No you haven’t. And if your posted video is any indication you lack basic understanding of police procedure and, to be frank, common sense.

            Without the proper permissions blocking traffic is illegal. The crowd refused to disperse with multiple warnings. The police were vastly outnumbered and were attacked when they attempted to arrest some people for doing the obviously illegal thing they were doing. If they had protested on the sidewalk they would have been left alone. Did you even read the article?

            Congratulations on only using Google once to support your view and nothing else. lawl.

            I’ve asked you a few questions now. You’ve answered maybe half of one. If you want to have a conversation you have to contribute a little bit.

          7. Vtech

            >Anyway; blm is an organization. Supporting it does not make you part of it. Much like the bail out protester sites received millions, blm has also received millions in the past few months. That’s just in online donations. Do you know where it goes?

            To certain charities and decentralized groups that support BLM. Literally any moderately popular group of people can ask for, and receive, donations. It’s not that special.

            >I said nothing about their protesters getting paid or trained. I asked what was known about the leadership, origin, and funding.

            Depends on the city/state/group getting the donations. There is no universal answer to that.

            >Without the proper permissions blocking traffic is illegal. The crowd refused to disperse with multiple warnings. The police were vastly outnumbered and were attacked when they attempted to arrest some people for doing the obviously illegal thing they were doing.

            They could have just waited them out, as the police have shown themselves more than capable of doing for far more severe crimes and far more reprehensible people.
            I don’t see how starting a brawl is easier than simply redirecting traffic.

            But if you want further, less ambiguous scenes, here you go:
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIgw1VJJLIM&has_verified=1

            >I’ve asked you a few questions now. You’ve answered maybe half of one. If you want to have a conversation you have to contribute a little bit.

            I’ve answered every question you’ve given me so far, you just claim I’m not for some reason.

          8. Robert Freeman

            So no, you don’t know where it goes.

            And you don’t know anything about the leadership or founding.

            Yes, if you’re the type of person with a victim mentality you’d believe they could have waited them out. Unfortunately police are paid to stop crimes. Regardless of how “peaceful” they were, what they were doing was illegal. They could have just gotten a permit to use the street. They could have gone on the sidewalk. They chose to break the law.

            Nice vid. 3 second cut clips of no context. You know, when a protest turns violent the police have to disperse them. It’s only for those unimportant things like safety of innocent bystanders n stuff. The protesters don’t get double backsies cuz “no really, It’s super important guys”. In the scenes I recognized from those clips the crowd had violently engaged police. So police were forced to attempt to disperse them for public safety. After that it doesn’t matter. Even if you were in the back and had no intentions of acting violently, someone made that decision for you.

            No you haven’t. Even in your reply to my other post (that you made after you posted this reply lawl) you didn’t answer anything. That you think you did doesn’t surprise me. You started off ignoring 90% of what I wrote, and even though you quote more you’re still ignoring 90% of what I write.

  5. Robert Freeman

    Gotta start a new reply section.

    So, Vtech: I’ll take that as “not many” followed by “you didn’t look any up, or if you did it didn’t align with your world view.” And it seems as though you either didn’t read most of what I wrote, you don’t understand it, or you’re willfully ignoring it. That’s fine. I gave you the chance to talk with me like an adult but I really wasn’t expecting you to.

    Believe what you will of my personality it doesn’t change that most people just want the feel goods. Much like “thoughts and prayers” does absolutely nothing besides convey you are a ‘good’ person, a black square does absolutely nothing. You mentioned earlier the steps taken to curb police abuse because of the protests. Would you mind listing the steps? How about the number of occurrences? How about number of people killed by police in a given year categorically by armed, unarmed, resisted arrest, prior felonies, and reason the attempted arrest took place? Anything to show you did the slightest bit of research and aren’t just in it for that sweet sweet feeling of righteous indignation. It would certainly make me feel better knowing that something besides skyrocketing crime rates happened because of the protests. But, based on your auto response program and clear signs of no inner monologue I doubt I’ll be hearing anything good.

    I don’t think they should be doing it. That was pretty obvious from my first post. Congrats. You’ve proven that I have an opinion. Gonna punch me in the face because of it? Just ignore that I support their rights regardless of my personal feelings. You’ve already ignored 90% of my content. Shouldn’t be hard. I support your right to free speech and I don’t even think you are human. You haven’t convinced me you aren’t a computer program and we’ve “spoken” three times. Maybe come to the youth center this weekend with me and you can beep boop at the kids and show them your impersonation of a living being.

    Reply
    1. Vtech

      >”Believe what you will of my personality it doesn’t change that most people just want the feel goods.”

      That’s certainly a claim you can make. And it must be pretty easy to be able to auto-assume all those people don’t actually care and are just doing it for attention.

      >”You mentioned earlier the steps taken to curb police abuse because of the protests. Would you mind listing the steps?”

      Here you go, very easy to look up political trends in the wake of civil unrest:
      https://www.niacouncil.org/news/police-reform-inching-forward-in-congress-in-wake-of-protests/?locale=en

      And if you need proof that the American police is obviously corrupt and needs reform to root out abuse:
      https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/how-police-union-power-helped-increase-abuses

      The number of protections and loopholes unions are willing to supply directly correlates to increased police violence against citizens. It’s a pretty fucking big problem.
      Especially when cops who try to stop abuse get fired:
      https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cariol-horne-buffalo-police-chokehold/

      >”Maybe come to the youth center this weekend with me and you can beep boop at the kids and show them your impersonation of a living being.”

      The fact that you think people that protest/support BLM don’t also help out at youth centers, just because you haven’t personally seen it, is hilarious and sad.
      https://www.adirondackdailyenterprise.com/opinion/letters-to-the-editor/2020/06/youth-center-says-black-lives-matter/
      https://www.riseboro.org/rb/community/black_lives_matter/

      Please try to look beyond your own limited view of the world.

      Reply
      1. Robert Freeman

        Yes it is and yes it is. Although calling out generalizations in a thread entirely about generalizations show’s a certain lack of awareness.

        I asked YOU to tell me the steps. YOU replied to me saying they were being taken, implying YOU knew what they were/are.

        Gonna need better proof than that. “led to a forty per cent statewide increase in cases of violent misconduct—translating to nearly twelve additional such incidents annually.” Lawl. 12 whole entire cases in the entire state of florida. Gonna need to call in the marines for this. Notice how they listed the 40% first. That article is littered with–I’m going to have to assume deliberate–skewing figures. It doesn’t mention population, causation, or any correlations or contexts. This is just a laughably bad article.

        Did you read this cbs article? Wow. They are not subtle. Incident happened in 2006. She was fired in 2008. Now this is important, you’ll notice they never use the word “because”. I’m being dramatic. Their wording is pretty important though. “A Buffalo police officer says she stopped a fellow cop’s chokehold on a black suspect. (((AS A RESULT))) She was fired.” You see the difference a few words make. As it stands I can’t take this article seriously. Half the content are emotional triggers and they never actually say “because she stopped a choke she was fired”. They just let you assume. This is just poor journaling (p.s. I know it’s “journalism”).
        If the unions are the problem and encouraging police violence and preventing punishment then why isn’t everyone asking for a disband of the unions? Perhaps you should go calmly explain to them your logic and reasoning. Rofl.

        I can’t help but to correct you here. That is community centers supporting blm not blm supporting community centers. Lol. Seriously though; that is a board of directors posting the black square. Let me know next time you see jeff bezos at a march. Just link me a few twitters of protesters that also volunteer and I’ll believe you that some attempt to make a real difference. Not some corporate copy-paste to curry favor.

        Mr. Tech, based on the articles you’ve linked it appears as though you have no grasp on even the most obvious and deliberate attempts to manipulate you, or (and I hope this isn’t the case) you linked those just because they support your point and not because they truthfully or honestly support your point. If it is the former, please read the entire article thoroughly before posting it and it it’s the latter…well…Please try to look beyond your own limited view of the world.

        Oh yeah. This is partially the reason I don’t think any protesters volunteer anywhere. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4200272/92-Berlin-left-wing-activists-live-parents.html
        Rofl.

        Reply
        1. Vtech

          >Lawl. 12 whole entire cases in the entire state of florida. Gonna need to call in the marines for this.
          The fact that it’s rare doesn’t make it any less awful or cause for concern when police do it so casually and get away with it.

          >It doesn’t mention population, causation, or any correlations or contexts. This is just a laughably bad article.
          The study it links to does. Did you not read the study?

          >Their wording is pretty important though.
          The wording is pretty clear, the officer herself even details that’s what happened. Are you really going to claim the entire article is a lie because of vague “wording”?

          >If the unions are the problem and encouraging police violence and preventing punishment then why isn’t everyone asking for a disband of the unions?
          Some people are. Unions are very rich and influential though, so it’s hard get rolling.
          https://www.baltimoresun.com/opinion/op-ed/bs-ed-op-0618-disband-police-unions-20200617-dqwpzh5vkjdkje2l4h5o2usqce-story.html

          > Just link me a few twitters of protesters that also volunteer and I’ll believe you that some attempt to make a real difference.
          Sorry, but you don’t get to dictate that.(Putting aside the ridiculousness of wanting me to cross reference pictures of random protesters and you casually dismissing the link between BLM and multiple charities and community centers,)

          If you want to live in a world where protesting has no positive affect, despite all historic and current precedent, and that literally none of millions upon millions of protesters want to make a “real difference” then that’s on you.

          > Oh yeah. This is partially the reason I don’t think any protesters volunteer anywhere.
          1)Why would being unemployed or living with parents prevent someone from helping out at charities or community centers?

          2)We’re talking about American protests. How are statistics in Berlin relevant in any way?

          Here’s the response to your other comment because that thread was getting too long:

          >So no, you don’t know where it goes.
          And you don’t know anything about the leadership or founding.

          There’s merchandise, organizing events, signs, expenses needed for travel, permits for legal protests etc etc.
          The list goes on and on for what money goes to.

          But if you want something like a financial report from a BLM group that accepts donations then you can call or email actblue here:
          https://secure.actblue.com/donate/ms_blm_homepage_2019

          >Nice vid. 3 second cut clips of no context.
          At least I linked what I saw.
          You just claim you’ve seen no clips of police brutality what so ever and that all peaceful protesters were left alone.

          Which this reporter may disagree with you on:
          https://www.businessinsider.com/portland-journalist-recounts-being-shot-in-the-face-by-police-2020-7#:~:text=Jennings%20is%20not%20the%20first,”%20but%20life-changing%20projectile.

          >After that it doesn’t matter.

          It does matter. You can’t just give the police free reign to brutalize people like that. That kind of attitude is exactly what leads to abuse and power trips.

          Reply
          1. Robert Freeman

            Let’s see. Florida has 21 million people give or take. The fact that it’s rare means it’s what people call an “isolated incident”. I.E. not reflective of the group as a whole. I.E. not taught, encouraged, or covered up. I.E. not representative. I.E. you shouldn’t make generalizations based on absolutely nothing. Your odds of getting police brutalized in FL is 0.00009%. No one says it’s not awful. No one says it doesn’t happen. It’s just very very very very very very very very rare.

            I see you’re still ignoring a good portion of what I say. I asked you for the steps taken to curb police abuse because in one of your first replies you said they were being taken. Implying you knew what they were. You wouldn’t be coming here making claims that you don’t even know are true or not would you?

            Oh yeah. That study sure does mention all that stuff. Lawl. Slave owners had white enforcers to “police” the slaves. Therefore all police now are basically slave owners. Hahahahahaha. Jesus Christ. That was a very amusing read. To think this was published at an actual university. Oxford no less.

            Alright. Whew. On to the next thing.
            That article AND YOU implied she was fired because she stopped another officer from choking a kid. Is that or is that not why she was fired?
            The choker went to prison huh? That kinda goes against everything you said about police always getting away with stuff now doesn’t it.

            Good luck with the unions. Not a big fan of any of them. Although I don’t see looted stores and burnt out cars on behalf of ending the unions. Don’t see actual protests either.

            So you don’t know any and you don’t have any. Good to know.

            I never said I want to live in a world where protests have no positive effect. I never said protests have no positive effect. I said THESE protests don’t help black people. And the people in them are only there for internet good boy points. Any assumptions you make are on you.

            I suppose you have a point. Unemployed 30 year olds living with their parents probably do have a lot of free time to volunteer. Probably really understand the issues too, with all that personal experience.
            I posted that mainly for the laughs and to juxtapose the embarrassing articles you were posting. But it’s not unreasonable to see a correlation between those antifa and these antifa.

            Nope. Totally don’t know anything about the leadership and founding. Why don’t you tell me about them.
            blm got hundreds of millions in donations since June. The question was more to get you thinking (well not you but anyone reading this) than for want of a real answer. Yours was amusing though. Signs and travel expenses ay? Are they buying a plane every time they have to go somewhere? Lawl. “Here’s your solid gold sign ringed with diamonds steve. Have fun at the protests”. Rofl.

            Okay. For the past 100+ days people in portland have been protesting during the day and rioting at night. You’ll notice the “outraged against police brutality” videos are all at night. They leave actual protesters alone.
            I never claimed I’ve seen no clips of police brutality. Please stop.

            Your reporter said police had ordered them to disperse. Meaning they had gotten violent. Meaning they were no longer a peaceful protest. If they don’t disperse police have to disperse them. It’s kinda their job. That whole public safety thing again. What a hassle right?

            “After that it doesn’t matter.” Nice out of context quote that you answered out of context. lawl. I’m shocked you would do this. Shocked I tell you. Shocked.
            When a crowd turns violent police have to disperse them for public safety. All those innocent bystanders that had the misfortune to live where you’re having your little larp session don’t deserve to get hurt because you decided to throw a tantrum. Once the crowd turns violent they get dispersed. Even if you were in the back with “no intentions of violence” you get dispersed.

            Interesting how you keep saying brutality and brutalized. And how Mr. K has said police riots twice now. He even said they were nationwide. I wonder if you’re doing this deliberately or if you actually believe this is brutality and these are police riots.
            Police are trained, equipped, and organized. If they were rioting you’d know it. You are being ridiculous. Acting like you stormed Omaha beach because you experienced 2nd hand pepper spray. Grown man.

          2. Vtech

            That’s not what an isolated incident means. Something being rare doesn’t mean it isn’t connected to larger issues or not a problem.

            > It’s just very very very very very very very very rare.

            So is most violent crime. The difference between most criminals and the police is a little thing called the “thin blue line” and qualified immunity and the slew of other union enforced protections.

            > You wouldn’t be coming here making claims that you don’t even know are true or not would you?

            I linked to news about new bills concerning police conduct being passed. Is there something wrong about the news?

            > That study sure does mention all that stuff. Lawl. Slave owners had white enforcers to “police” the slaves.

            The study does not mention slaves or slave owners at all. Again; the study itself is linked in the article. Here’s a quote from it that uses population as a factor:
            “As predicted before, there is a significant and positive relationship between police
            protections and population even when controlling for the effects of other variables. Chicago, which is indicated in “Figure 4”, represents the extreme case scoring a police protection score of 9 and has the greatest level of police abuse. In other words, this model states that a one unit increase in the police protection index has a .51 increase in police abuse, which is significant.”

            Yes, that’s why the female cop was fired. As confirmed by the article, it is public knowledge.
            The officer who was doing the chocking was sent to jail years later, after years of further abuse of his power before it became to egregious to be ignored.

            Here’s a link about initiatives and protests against police unions:
            https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/11/police-unions-american-labor-movement-protest

            And you are wrong that these protest don’t help black people. They have already gotten the ball rolling on increasing accountability and shinning further light on racial bias. You just seem to have some kind of personal dislike of the protesters for some reason and have this preset and uniform image of them in your mind.
            And also seem to think they’re unemployed 30 somethings despite most protests featuring young people.

            >” Why don’t you tell me about them.”

            You can look them up. They aren’t masked figures cloaked in mystery

            > Are they buying a plane every time they have to go somewhere? Lawl.

            Gas, tolls, signs, and t-shirts all cost money, dude.

            > They leave actual protesters alone.
            I never claimed I’ve seen no clips of police brutality. Please stop.

            Pick one: Are you claiming they always leave protesters alone. As you have stated multiple times. (Which is wrong.)
            Or are you claiming you’ve never seen videos of police brutality.

            > If they don’t disperse police have to disperse them. It’s kinda their job.

            And that is where we come to an impasse. You seem to think police being given clearance to disperse a crowd = attacking whoever the fuck happens to be in range regardless of context.
            I disagree; especially not when the police attack a non-violent reporter, with a visible press pass, and shoots them directly in the face with a rubber bullet. Which can, and did, cause major unwarranted injury.

            > Acting like you stormed Omaha beach because you experienced 2nd hand pepper spray.

            Speaking of pepper spray (and other forms of non-lethal weapons police sometimes use unprovoked):
            https://abcnews.go.com/US/philly-officer-pepper-sprayed-peaceful-protesters-charged-assault/story?id=71940961
            https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/ny-jared-lakey-oklahoma-man-taser-death-20200715-jz46r6ivcfddppnp7omqw5bgme-story.html

        2. Vtech

          > Lawl. 12 whole entire cases in the entire state of florida.
          Just because something is rare doesn’t mean it is any less cause for concern, especially when cops have decent odds of getting off light for such conduct.

          I can only assume you’re arguing in bad faith at this point:
          The article you’re talking about has a link to the study which includes the information you claim is missing.
          The cop who was fired for stopping another cop from chocking a handcuffed suspect is public knowledge. And the reason she was fired is stated by several articles, the department, and the cop herself. (Also the cop she stopped, who was left on the force, latter had to go to jail over excessive force.)
          https://www.cityandstateny.com/articles/policy/criminal-justice/black-buffalo-cop-stopped-another-officers-chokehold-she-was-fired

          And your last article doesn’t even prove anything besides that a lot of leftist protesters in Berlin, not America, either live with their parents and/or are unemployed. Which I frankly don’t see has anything to do with their willingness or ability to help at youth centers.

          As for your other response in the separate thread(because that one was getting too long):

          I know you won’t believe that the most popular people associated with leading the biggest BLM protests are public knowledge, or the fact that mundane things like merchandise, paying to stage protests, food, and water might require some money when you need to congregate and lead thousands of people.
          So here’s a link where you can call or email the organization that handles a BLM group’s donations to get a full financial report:
          https://secure.actblue.com/donate/ms_blm_homepage_2019

          >Nice vid. 3 second cut clips of no context.
          At least I linked the video I watched. Instead of you who just claims unilaterally that all peaceful protests were left alone.
          Which this reporter probably disagrees with.
          https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/06/11/journalist-blinded-during-protest-sues-minneapolis-police-state-patrol/

          >After that it doesn’t matter.
          It does matter, you can’t just give the police free reign to brutalize people like that.

          Reply

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